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+  BollyWHAT?: For Clueless Fans of Bollywood Films!
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Author Topic: Kuch Kuch Hota Hai!  (Read 43795 times)
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« Reply #100 on: November 04, 2005, 06:02:25 PM »

Right, I just saw this again. I remember more clearly now why I didn't like it in the first time I saw it and why it wasn't this magnificent "Wow, what a film!"-experience for me. Let me elaborate.

I saw KKHH around two or three months after seeing K3G for the first time. And I have to say, K3G as my first BW film really shaped my idea of what I like in BW films, at least as far as KKHH went. Don't get me wrong, I don't worship K3G - but the first hour of it is really special to me. That's my first experience of seeing BW, seeing Kajol, seeing Shahrukh, their on-screen chemistry - many firsts there.

So when I saw KKHH, something felt wrong. There were complications to their love unlike there had been in K3G - there was unrequited love. And there was Tina and I didn't dislike Tina or hate her (I actually cried during the first scenes of the film where she dies), but it just tore me apart that Rahul didn't notice Anjali and Anjali was so very in love with him. It just.. I couldn't stand it. I still can't. It made me feel uncomfortable and sad for Anjali. Even the picturization of the title song which I LOVE didn't feel like anything to me - it was all too sad.

I very much enjoyed this film, and if I watch it again, I'm sure I will enjoy it again, but I have no massive emotional connection that I have with some films - and that many people have with this film. I'm just dissatisfied and annoyed at some little things and for the first time in ages, actually thought, "Okay, that's enough." when the fifteenth millionth bright-coloured Gap-shirt with stupidly patterned shorts appeared on the screen dancing. Usually I can laugh at it - or shockingly, even like it! But this time it was just ..eh, enough.

Of course, circumstances always affect these things. I was really into the first half and actually cried more than I have for many films but it was mostly just because it'd been a stressful evening for me - so it was more that than actual emotional attachment.

Hmm, anything else. Oh yeah! I had forgotten how cool Salman was in this film. Haha. And the clever things with the story, the constant name confusion and the like.

We were talking about the "one-love-or-not"-thing in this thread and during this re-watch I noticed something: Tina says, "I was his friend, but Anjali was his best friend", relating to Rahul saying "Friendship is love." That kind of sums it up for me. It's love, but it's different, with different people.
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« Reply #101 on: November 05, 2005, 07:18:44 AM »

I have a question: Are Rahul and his daughter Muslim?  The part where lilttle Anjali is praying to God confused me because I thought they were Hindu
They're Hindus. Little Anjali prays in the Muslim way because she's in Rifat Bi's home, who is Muslim.

I watched the film again yesterday and I wondered if that was it.  Thanks for clearing that up Smiley
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« Reply #102 on: November 05, 2005, 01:24:35 PM »

OK, so I just watched this for the first time and I have to admit I was a little underwhelmed by it (but I was expecting that because of all the hype surrounding it if you will).

And I still liked Rani in it, in fact despite her being 'the other woman' in this one again, the bits I cried the most at was
a) her funeral (at that point I was like "damnit Karan, 2 minutes in and I'm already crying, this is going to be a long three hours for the tear ducts" Tongue)
b) her and Rahul in the hospital and
c) when she appears at the end (I was actually bawling at that point, but we won't go into that any further Wink)

I agree with veracious though, by the time the fiftieth designer top appeared onscreen I just wanted to scream. Angry

It's a sweet film, but I still prefer K3G and KHNH over it.  I think it could grow on me though.
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« Reply #103 on: November 05, 2005, 02:53:36 PM »

Veracious, K3G was my first BW movie, too. My next KJ was KKHH and then came KHNH. I had a similar yet stronger reaction of something feeling wrong with KHNH. You say you were torn apart by the fact Rahul doesn't notice Anjali's love, you couldn't stand it. I had that reaction of "not being able to stand it" when Aman lies to Naina (yes, we all know why, but it still felt wrong) about being married and therefore not being in love with her...
I will never love KHNH because the turn of the story was nothing I could stand, neither intellectually nor emotionally. So maybe everyone has his/her own KJ movie that doesn't really work for him/her.
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« Reply #104 on: November 05, 2005, 05:32:42 PM »

Veracious, K3G was my first BW movie, too. My next KJ was KKHH and then came KHNH. I had a similar yet stronger reaction of something feeling wrong with KHNH. You say you were torn apart by the fact Rahul doesn't notice Anjali's love, you couldn't stand it. I had that reaction of "not being able to stand it" when Aman lies to Naina (yes, we all know why, but it still felt wrong) about being married and therefore not being in love with her...
I will never love KHNH because the turn of the story was nothing I could stand, neither intellectually nor emotionally. So maybe everyone has his/her own KJ movie that doesn't really work for him/her.

It did not bother me that Aman lies to Naina, he had a good reason for it.  I had major problem with Naina.   Priety is ok, not my favourite, but she does not cry well which she does a lot in KHNH.    KHNH is my least KJ favourite movie.    Story has too many weak points and I saw it again hoping I would change my mind, but I have not so far.  Majority of people I know love it.
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« Reply #105 on: November 05, 2005, 05:37:07 PM »

Thinking back now, I don't think I've formed a huge emotional attachment to any KJo films. KHNH was entertaining as hell, but that was about it - SRK/Preity never worked for me that well. K3G's first 60 minutes or so are great but after that, I didn't like the film so much any more. KKHH is good and I like it, but it's not in my top 10.

Hopefully I'll really like KANK.
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« Reply #106 on: November 19, 2005, 10:06:30 PM »

Does anyone know the Hindi dialogue to the part in KKHH when Shahrukh & the kids are singing "congratulations" to anjali...the dialogue after when he asks if she's happy...?
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« Reply #107 on: November 20, 2005, 12:43:17 PM »

Does anyone know the Hindi dialogue to the part in KKHH when Shahrukh & the kids are singing "congratulations" to anjali...the dialogue after when he asks if she's happy...?

Do you mean you want a romanized version of what Kajol and SRK say in Hindi?
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« Reply #108 on: November 20, 2005, 01:58:29 PM »

I was actually looking for the dialogue in Hindi...not in English...of what Kajol and SRK say
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« Reply #109 on: November 20, 2005, 02:00:02 PM »

I actually prefer K3G to KKHH. Considering the fact that I have too many problems with K3G, I am bound to have more with KKHH.

-The whole college thing looked so stupid. Proms etc do not happen in Indian colleges unless it is one of those preppy colleges. Even then, it would never be so elaborate.

-Dress code: who the hell dresses that way when coming to a college? It looked more like a high school in the U.S. as opposed to a college in India.

-Pyaar kya hai? - pyaar dosti hai!! I think only Rahul could come up with such an innovative answer. Geez! Love is not that simple, nor is it just about friendship. I guess it works within the premise of the film, but it was just sooooooo cheesy. It actually spawned a whole movement in India about "love is friendship" nonsense and ruined many a good relationships. I was in school then, so I have many stories to tell, thanks to this movie! Tongue

-SRK: Terrible acting. OMG! The first half made me want to box his ears and the second half made me want to give him a therapy session.

-Anjali: Kajol was really good in this one. She became Anjali. Loved her tomboy attitude and wardrobe in first half. And then of course, she has to be bitten by the lovebug and has to give up everything, including her personality,thanks to Rahul's idiocy. I honestly think Anjali is not the smartest person, if so, she would have dumped Rahul and married a hot and sweet man like Aman. Waiting for a man who doesn't know what he wants for 9 years was unbelieveable but at least, she was engaged, which shows she has some sense in her.

-The teachers: Where did KJ go and do his schooling? My! Archana Puran Singh's Ms.Briganza was cringe worthy. Her ability to translate all her sentences from English to Hindi is def praiseworthy.  Roll Eyes In which world does a teacher even present herself this way? The Anupam Kher bit was funny, but still...........

Little Anjali: The most annoying kid in the world. Since when did kids start making decisions for thier parents esp when it comes to a life partner? This girl just annoyed me to no end.

After all this bashing, let me come to my fav bits:

-Tina: Surprisingly, yes, the woman who comes between Rahul and Anjali. The woman everyone loves to hate.  Roll Eyes The woman who is intelligent yet senstive, rich yet kind, in love yet aware, modern yet traditional, has a spine and yet is capable of making a sacrifice. Rani became one of my favs after I watched this one.  Kiss  One of my all time fav characters in the recent times as well. Given the limited screen time, she had a huge impact on me. She made me see why Rahul fell for her, why Anjali wanted to be like her and why everyone envied her. I liked the fact that she knew everything and yet decided to take her chance with Rahul because she did love him. Whether or not, it was a foolish decision, she was not one to sit by and let this chance of happiness pass by her. She knew Rahul loved Anjali, but she also knew she loved him as much. So,why should she give up what destiny wanted her to have, when the man she loves wants to be with her? All because another woman is in love with Rahul? As far as I see, Tina does what she thinks is best in the situation and maybe in a short term for Rahul.Rahul did love Anjali, but he might take his own sweet time to realize it. Plus, love is not just about friendship. Sometimes, love blooms for other reasons too and she knew it. Love is never that simple.Tina could easily have been portrayed as a bitch or a scheming woman. But no, she is portrayed as a normal woman: someone beautiful, charming, sexy,caring, smart et al. I don't see why she needs to back out of the situation at all. And I have to give KJ  a brownie point for bringing Tina into the picture. I think knowing that you might lose everything at some point is a sacrifice and Tina is bold enough to put herself through it.  Cool

Aman: Just fell in love with Salman in this. So charming and hot! In a way, he is very similar to Tina and I just wanted to hug this guy in the end. I wanted to hypnotise Kajol and make her run away with him.

Music: Very pleasant, though a bit too saccherine sweet for me.

General comment: I liked the look and the feel of the film. It had gloss and style, but I just couldn't buy what KJ was trying to sell. I guess I am not his kind of audience. I think his archie-veronica-betty theme was cute, but I prefered Shahid's debut.It was more real and the characters were more true to themselves. Although, I really missed Tina when I saw it.
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« Reply #110 on: November 20, 2005, 02:24:44 PM »

I was actually looking for the dialogue in Hindi...not in English...of what Kajol and SRK say

Romanized Hindi means Hindi written in Roman alphabet instead of the correct writing, ie. Devanagari or Urdu script.
So the dialogue is (I can provide a Devanagari version if you're interested) :
- Kyaa hai Anjali? Tumne mujhe bataayaa bhi nahin. Aman ne bataayaa ki tumhaarii shaadii hone vaalii. Hey, congratulations. Tum khush ho na? Hey, tum khush ho na?
- Yah sunkar, kyaa tum khush ho?
- Main bahut khush huun.
- To phir main kaise khush ho saktii huun?
- Main kuchh samjhaa nahin.
- Kuchh kuchh hotaa hai Rahul, tum nahin samjhoge.
- Kuchh kuchh hotaa hai Anjali, tum nahin samjhogii.
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« Reply #111 on: November 21, 2005, 05:21:30 PM »

Thanks a lot! Do you happen to know the Romanized dialogue for the part after the charades game and she says "you couldn't even do that much" and he says "i couldn't" and she says "if you did, we would have won?"
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« Reply #112 on: November 21, 2005, 05:49:33 PM »

Thanks a lot! Do you happen to know the Romanized dialogue for the part after the charades game and she says "you couldn't even do that much" and he says "i couldn't" and she says "if you did, we would have won?"

I don't "know" the romanized dialogue, but I know Hindi, so I can listen to the scenes and write down the lines Smiley.

Here is the dialogue after the "dumb charades" game :
- Tum itnaa nahin kar paae?
- Nahin kar paayaa.
- Kar paate to hum jiit jaate na?
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« Reply #113 on: December 11, 2005, 05:14:33 PM »

Reading criticism of KKHH physically pains me.   Grin  There is no Hindi film (no other film, period?) to which I feel so emotionally attached.  Sure, part of it is that KKHH was what "hooked" me on Hindi cinema.  Nevertheless, there's more to it than that.  And so, in defense of my dear, darling, Kuch Kuch, I'm reposting my comments from chatarea.

***

 I'm more of a book person than a movie person (I can hear you laughing, but it's true -- if I'm this obsessed with movies, imagine how many books I read!). KKHH is the only movie to which I can apply my highest form of book praise: whenever I hear that someone has seen and fallen in love with this film for the first time, I feel tremendously jealous that I cannot erase all knowledge of the movie from my head so I can have that first-time experience once more. This film is not great art -- but it is world-class moviemaking. If you make it past the first thirty minutes of cheeze, the film possesses you -- and your tearducts. It is, to me, the epitome of modern Hindi cinema's unique strengths. No Hollywood film has ever grabbed me by the throat the way this one did -- with such calculated, unabashedly manipulative, gleeful skill.

***

 I've spent so much keyboard time praising this film over the last three years that I'm kind of burned out on writing about it. But in light of the slew of criticisms, I feel honorbound to step up and defend my number one favorite film of all time. This time, however, I'm going to omit the usual lengthy discourses on my fave scenes, the SRK-Kajol chemistry, the lovely romance, the solid plotting, and instead take a totally different tack... post-modernism.

See, the predominant style in Bollywood is that of overblown melodrama: brash spectacle, unabashed gaudiness. The films in this ouevre don't try for subtlety. Quite simply, they're out to yank your chain in as many different directions as they can manage to within three hours' time. But a lot of them are hypocritically coy in their attempt to do this. Take Hum Dil De Chuke Sanam, or even Devdas. Both are melodramas to the Nth degree, and they play on our love of pretty clothing, great dances, beautiful faces, and, yes, generous helpings of cheeze. But never tell me these films acknowledge what they are. No way. They pretend to take themselves verrrry seriously. Love! loss! The meaning of life and death and grief and sacrifice! Riiiight. Or take Hum Aapke Hain Koun -- another classic "bloater", as one could call these melodramatic carnival-esque epics. HAHK knows it's an out-and-out melodrama that lacks a grain of subtlety, but it doesn't acknowledge this to the audience. On the surface, it takes itself pretty seriously, trying for genuine pathos with the sister's death, offering no winks to the audience even when a household pet becomes God's divine messenger.

This is the genre into which KKHH falls. But Johar deliberately breaks with the traditional wisdom (ie, manipulate them shamelessly, but never admit you're doing it). KKHH takes all the cornball hamminess of HAHK and deliberately ups the intensity to the point where the cornball factor becomes an in-your-face act of aggression. The audience isn't allowed to overlook the surreality of the movie, nor to imagine the film imagines itself as addressing some deep or important issue; rather, the audience is forced to acknowledge the ham, and invited to laugh at it. The characters are clearly laughing at it themselves. Kajol attacking Rani in the hallway, speaking a mile a minute, bouncing up and down like a speed freak, while cheerleaders are dancing and squealing in the background, somebody is wandering around in a large costume (I believe it's an animal, a mascot, maybe), girls doing chorus line leg-kicks, an English teacher whose name is always followed by an invisible chorus ("Ms. Braganza, uh-huh!"). Is this a college? Or a funfair/madhouse? Rahul's gang speaks in unison; crazy sound effects (like cars squealing to a stop, etc) accompany all their exaggerated movements (yanking off their sunglasses, etc.). It's so self-consciously over the top that it's impossible to take seriously -- and this is where the novelty and brilliance of Johar's work becomes apparent. His audacity: he doesn't want you to take this seriously. Nor do the actors. They're sharing the joke with you. They're forcing you, the audience, to acknowledge the comic-strip blatancy of the emotional manipulation.

The challenge Johar takes on: can he still manage to play you, despite the fact that you know you're being played?

IMO, he pulls off the challenge beautifully. Somewhere before intermission -- for me, right around the title song, but for some people it's not until "Tujhe Yaad Na Meri Aaye" -- the comic-book spectacle, which up till this point has been glaring, fascinating only for its own gaudy brazenness-- suddenly assumes this astounding emotional depth. These comic book characters -- the tomboy, the siren, the rogue -- all at once become real characters to us. We know we've been played. Suddenly we don't care. And the cool thing about this movie is that because we've been forced to acknowledge the strange heightened unreality of this world, we're also, in some way, transported back to a state of wonder or at least unfamiliarity that most of us haven't known since we were children who used to read fairy tales like they were actually true stories. That's what KKHH does. It forces you to accept you're entering a fairy tale world. One moment, you're thinking, "It's a fairy tale, not real, and every time SRK's gang speaks in chorus you're shoving that fact into my face. So tell me, why the hell should I care what happens in this ridiculous make-believe place?" The next, you're accepting the story in a very unusual way -- you're suddenly, consciously, willingly invested in what you recognize is utterly impossible, not even remotely conceivable as reality. And like I said before, that's a capacity most of us lose as kids. In most movies, we suspend disbelief in order to enjoy the film. KKHH forces us to disbelieve, and lose ourselves in the story anyway! A story that keeps on continuously reminding us of its own falsity! And by seducing us into caring while simultaneously not believing, it forces us to surrender the idea of what's important and what isn't, what makes a good story and what doesn't. So what if this is a bizarre, unbelievable, campy place. We still care. We can't, won't, aren't allowed to suspend disbelief. This is only a melodrama, after all. Listen to the chorus chanting Ms. Braganza's name. And yet...we still care. Tell me, how many of you are usually able to consciously lose yourselves in what you're fully aware is impossible?  You probably haven't done it since you put away the toy soldiers and She-ra dolls.  With KKHH, you do.

Karan Johar, with this film, has achieved the ultimate mindf**k. He's basically emotionally manipulated us with our willing consent, he's made a mockery of the way we usually watch movies, he's set up an absurd vision and then told us he's going to make us cry despite the absurdity, and then, when we tell him he's nuts, he goes ahead and does it anyway.

This film is postmodern!

And there ends this wandering rant, written, admittedly, on only two hours' sleep. Smiley

***

 I always thought that scarf was one of the coolest aspects of the movie. It proves how much thought went into the script (as opposed to SO MANY other Bollywood films).  During the Saajanji song, it becomes clear that the scarf is some sort of important symbol. During the song, we intercut between Anjali's engagement and Rahul's trip to Delhi for his late wife's shraddha. This is when li'l Anjali takes the opportunity to dress as elder Anjali did so many years ago -- in that fashion-setting white kurta-salwar combo with the red chunni. The fact that is shows up at the engagement as well, without explanation, is proof of the mysterious forces at work: whether Anjali the Elder likes it or not, she is "bound" to her past by the events symbolized by that chunni, and that past is coming for her at lightning speed (or shall I say, by rail?).

I also noted on old Voy forum what cool symbolic purposes this scarf serves in the pre-intermission train scene events. White is the color of mourning, bereavement. Anjali and Rani are both wearing white, but Anjali's white is alleviated by the colorful red chunni. When she decides to give up Rahul, she tosses the scarf to Rani -- so now she's wearing all white, and has entered a symbolic "mourning" or "bereavement" period; Rani, meanwhile, is no longer wearing all white: she's wearing the red scarf. She's the one with cause to celebrate.

KKHH is cool like that. I think 80% of its success was owed to its strong script. The other 20%, of course, was the Kajol-SRK combo.
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« Reply #114 on: December 12, 2005, 12:02:45 AM »

I think the appeal of the film ultimately boils down to the fact that, we've all had girls/guys who we've had as friends but never really thought we'd have a future together. And we've always had someone the same who we've realized we might or should have a future together, but then is too late.

Yes, it's creepy that the dead mother uses her 8 year old daughter to get her husband to marry another woman. Yes there are a whole lot of strange things in the film, but we just ignore that because we all know, SRK should be with Kajol and that's all that matters. We spend 90 minutes with them in school where they are laughing and joking and then see them apart and how they've changed and know that something went wrong and they should be together.

Thats why the film did so well...we related. They weren't trying to show off, oh here's my new mercedes and all my fancy european designer clothes...it was always about the characters.
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« Reply #115 on: December 12, 2005, 01:42:31 AM »

Meredith, thanks for that great write up!

I've always had a question about this film that I hope someone could answer for me:
Rahul (SRK) keeps saying that we live only once, die only once, marry only once.. and love only once. So does this mean that his one and only love was Rani and at the end of the movie his opinion changes because he begins to love Kajol.. OR does this mean that his one love had always been Kajol and he just didn't realise it until he sees her much later in her completely feminine avatar?
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« Reply #116 on: December 12, 2005, 02:10:30 AM »

I remember this quote...he says "hum zindagi mein ek baar jite hain , ek bar murte hain ek baar shadi karte hain aur pyar bhi ek baar hota hai"

But that was before the gazebo sequence.

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« Reply #117 on: December 12, 2005, 02:37:29 AM »

Reading criticism of KKHH physically pains me. Grin There is no Hindi film (no other film, period?) to which I feel so emotionally attached. Sure, part of it is that KKHH was what "hooked" me on Hindi cinema.

I get this. Certain films just are like that for people. We're in love with them, more than in love with them, we know the characters better than our family members. KKHH, unfortunately, for me isn't one of those films so my entire experience with the film is colored by that and while KKHH does have some strong merits, I think the fact whether you like a film or don't, often colors your view of those things.

Whenever I encounter strong criticism for a film I love like nothing else, I tend to scroll by because it's kind of pointless trying to defend the film when the people who critisize it didn't love it in the way that I do. They don't share the emotional attachment so it's difficult to overall make them see why I perhaps overlook the few flaws the film may or may not have because I just love it so much.
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« Reply #118 on: December 12, 2005, 05:18:43 AM »

I don't "know" the romanized dialogue, but I know Hindi, so I can listen to the scenes and write down the lines Smiley.

Here is the dialogue after the "dumb charades" game :
- Tum itnaa nahin kar paae?
- Nahin kar paayaa.
- Kar paate to hum jiit jaate na?

This was right after Rahul's previous line was "I love you!" in reference to the game... but ahh double meanings!

does this mean that his one love had always been Kajol and he just didn't realise it until he sees her much later in her completely feminine avatar?

I always took it ot mean that. After all doesn't Rani say that Rahul and Anjali were made for each other and she was his friend... but not his best friend?

So he loved her. But not in the one love thing he had with Anjali. I think Tongue
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« Reply #119 on: December 12, 2005, 10:43:22 AM »

There was a lot of cheese in this movie but I loved it anyway. The train and bench scenes are particular favorites of mine. The only issues I had with this movie were Aman being so understandable and giving his fiance to another dude and the stupid tears at the end of the movie. This happens in movies a lot but I really hate when people wait till the engagement/wedding to change their minds. All I can think of is all the money that's been wasted. Sad And the embarrassment to the jiltee and his family. Plus stupid Rahul would have watched his "love" marry someone else. He didn't really do anything. Like really do something. And then the crying was just excessive.

Nonetheless, I love this movie. Because of that, I was told to watch K3G and boy did I loathe that. DDLJ is even worse.
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« Reply #120 on: December 12, 2005, 10:48:45 AM »

Oh,man.
Everyone knows this film is loved by many(and by me too) but it's a long time since i read such  bias positive reviews about the film.
The first hour of the film is supposed to be some kind of a genius' trick? Sorry, i don't buy it.
I only saw excruciatingly bad attempts at humour starring the Shahrukh-Kajol pair on acid.
If this film had the Hrithik-Kareena jodi it would have been condemned to a daily never-ending execution by the majority of reviewers.
But while people can't get over the extreme silliness of MPKDH,they will sing hymns to praise the first hour of KKHH which has scenes lke the one with Anupam Kher flirting on the phone with Miss Briganza playing with his underwear between his feet.
Postmodernism and KKHH are strangers to each other in my humble opinion.
The last two hours are those that make most people appreciate this film and rightfully so in my mind.


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« Reply #121 on: December 12, 2005, 10:57:18 AM »

I think WE bring the postmodern critique to the film, because it is open like that.

I think bollyking(whose name simultaneously evokes shahrukh khan in his black Tee and a paper crown given away at a fast food place in my mind) has it near right.

This film is like a beautiful friendship you develop...and think about often. The latter parts give meaning (postmodern or othervice) to the (stupid) earlier parts.



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« Reply #122 on: December 12, 2005, 11:08:35 AM »

I think WE bring the postmodern critique to the film, because it is open like that.

I think bollyking(whose name simultaneously evokes shahrukh khan in his black Tee and a paper crown given away at a fast food place in my mind) has it near right.

This film is like a beautiful friendship you develop...and think about often. The latter parts give meaning (postmodern or othervice) to the (stupid) earlier parts.




I don't understand what is meant by
"WE bring the postmodern critique to the film, because it is open like that"
When i hear postmodernism i may think of clear examples like David Lodge's book 'Therapy'
I don't find anything 'open' in KKHH.It is full with clichees,formulaic elements,clear characters,a happy ending and all the stuff mentioned thousands of times (why Bollywood apeals to those who watch Bollywood films).
It's a very well made masala flick but how does postmodernism fit in this discussion? i'm curious

 
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Paok saajan, daily you enter my memories, my dreams. Why do you torment me so, my love?
Bebo, meri jaan, i' ll never depart from your embrace. I promise, one day i 'll steal you away from this world.

Give me Kareena or give me Lakalaka - Paok Henry
chandranc
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« Reply #123 on: December 12, 2005, 11:33:18 AM »

Quote
I don't find anything 'open' in KKHH.It is full with clichees,formulaic elements,clear characters,a happy ending and all the stuff mentioned thousands of times (why Bollywood apeals to those who watch Bollywood films).

If that's what you are reducing the film to..KKHH is more than all that.

I'm not sure , but i think we mean "open" in very different ways.ETA: When I say open, I mean that , for example, anjali wasn't a tomboy because she was "ugly"/ gay (traditional cliche) She didn't "feminize" for rahul...she just did. The tomboy wasn't the western product. the femme was....etc meanings that you woudn't even notice unless you looked for them..or they leaped out at you consistently, thrrough all the cliche)   A film need not be (or feel) post modern because it sticks by a strict construction of the term, as it has evolved today, pregnant with all the meanings and associations in it. It can just be that there are feelings, charecters, choices, acts in the film that feel like they are like (postmodern?) reactions to precisely all the cliches you mention in the film. The  effect is as if a postmodern critique was applied to ANYTHING.

Does that sound intelligible(I sometimes lapse into bouts of binary..) Tongue
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« Reply #124 on: December 12, 2005, 11:40:32 AM »

does this mean that his one love had always been Kajol and he just didn't realise it until he sees her much later in her completely feminine avatar?

I always took it ot mean that. After all doesn't Rani say that Rahul and Anjali were made for each other and she was his friend... but not his best friend?

So he loved her. But not in the one love thing he had with Anjali. I think Tongue
I think Farida Jalal (as SRK's mom) gives the answer to that: she talks to Anjali at the camp and tells her that men always put up these principles that they believe are the only truth, but 'we women' should learn them that it isn't necessary so. So she basically says that that line Rahul always keeps repeating isn't the truth about what he really thinks, it's just something he came up with a la his "Love is friendship"-line.

But while people can't get over the extreme silliness of MPKDH,they will sing hymns to praise the first hour of KKHH which has scenes lke the one with Anupam Kher flirting on the phone with Miss Briganza playing with his underwear between his feet.
Oh, I've always thought that was that eye-covering-thing soime people wear in order to prevent the light to disturb them while sleeping. I'll look more careful next time.
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