Miscellaneous Hindi Queries

[Ladyhawke]

Starting up the thread for various quesitons on Hindi here.

I need help with my lesson again please. I need the Hindi words for these English words first. Then I'm going to try to write the sentences. I just need the vocab! 

'got up late' - How would say I got up late? I just don't know how to say that.

'dinner'

'new restaurant'

'met' (as in "I met Joe")

'grade' (as in grades...A, B, F, etc.)

'excellent'

'rained'

'joined' (as in joining a club)

'gave a gift'

'bought'

I would appreciate it so much! THANK YOU!

(I wish the teacher would give us sentences for words we've covered  )

[Daniel]

got up late' - I'd say  मैं देर उठी.  but probably wrong

'dinner'   रात का खाना

'new restaurant'  -  नया होटेल्, नया रेस्टौरांट

'met' (as in "I met Joe") x से मिला/मिली

'grade' (as in grades...A, B, F, etc.)  मार्क्ज़्, नतीजा

'excellent'  hmm....how about बहुत खूब

'rained'  बारिश हुई?

'joined' (as in joining a club)  xमें शामिल लेना

'gave a gift' तोफ्हा देना

'bought'  खरीदा, खरीदी, खारीदे  (agreeing with the object bought.

[James]

Okay, I have a question that has bothered me for some time now, and one of Daniel's responses has sparked it...

In the past tense, how do women conjugate?  Obviously I'm not noticing it or not talking Hindi enough.

The usual past tense would be, for example, 'mainne khaanaa khaaya'.  How would a woman say that?

What would be the endings used for the different verbs?

I believe there's three broad classifications for past tense word endings depending on verbal stem:
khaanaa becomes Khaaya
milnaa becomes milaa
And another I can't think of off the top of my head I'd know if I heard it. 

So how do these word endings change for the fem past tense?  At least for the two here?

I remember one of my aunties saying something like, "de dee", for past tense one time..I forget the whole sentence, I think, "I gave it to you" (main ne tumhen de dee or tumko?).

Anyway, thoughts appreciated.

[Daniel]

A few more chapters into Snell, you will see that post positions always block agreement.  NE counts as a post positition, so its existance in a sentence blocks the verb from agreeing with the subject itself.  Instead, agreement reverts to the closest available, un-blocked word. 
Thats why both men AND women can say "maine khana khaya," because khana is masculine.  Even a man will say "maine chai pi li" becuase chai is feminine. 
Can you guess how to say 'I ate 2 samosas"?  What about "I ate those two samosas."?






1) मैने दो समोसे खाये
2) मैं ने दो समोसे को खाया.


Note both men and women can say this, and that the Ko in the second one forced the verb back into the default singular masculine.

so I gave it to you can be मैं ने तुम को दो समोसे दे दिये or मैं ने तुम को एक समोसे दे दिया

[Ladyhawke]

All I know is that I'm completely lost on the basics. I think I need to try my hardest to find that book I bought and do that along with what I'm learning. Because we aren't really going over rules and stuff.

I guess there's something to be said about learning by conversing and what we are learning, but it's getting frustrating to make sentences. Or maybe I'm just not studying enough on my own. I don't know. But I'm beginning to get disheartened.

EDIT: OOPS!! I forgot to say thank you Daniel! 

[Daniel]

NP.  But conversation is the ONLY way to go.  You can learn the rules this way, and also know when to break the rules. Although, I think that conversatoin also gets my hindi into a lot of trouble.  I have learned things about hindi when talking to certain people in certain areas, not realizing that those are very regional variants.  For example, living in H-bad, i used to always use the word Keiko to mean 'kaise'...come to find out its not too used outside the 'bad.  Or I would use bombay-ish stuff like "nahane ka" (need to bathe?).  Or lukhnawi stuff that I read in poetry and stories.  The worst, though, is when I used the lukhnawi lughat al-khwaatiin (womens talk) to say something...very embarassing

[James]

Yes, thanks, Daniel. 

But you know I simply couldn't let you get away without asking for an example of that lukhnawi lughat al-khwaatiin!!!

Share! 
LOL

[Daniel]

well, there are phrases that I just didnt know that men just shouldnt use, like tumhari kheti hari raho (may your fields stay green), or sadqa gaya, and then the times ive used the word taubah people have smirked, so I stopped that one real quick-like.

[bollyscot]

DANIELM:

Im not sure Black Butterfly....

"'dil dil ka yeh kaam hai... mera to naam hai.. ab kya karoon?'" = this what every heart must do...MY name...now what do I do

thats my take. Is there nothing else in between these lines?

Quote:
What time is it? With the word "samay" (which also means time) in it? 


I am not sure. I would only say "kitne baje hai" or "time kya hai." I suppose if I can say "time kya hai" i could also say samey kya hai, although its sounds a little strange to my ears (which doesnt necessarily mean anything.)
I've also heard "kitna hua?" in reference to time.



BLACKBUTTERFLY:

hmmm i was wondering.. u know how people might use tha or thi to represent past tense of a word... how do u know when to use which one? is it that tha is masculine and thi is feminine??
and since we're talking abt masculine and femine (warning: this question might sound a bit stupid  ) umm how can u tell which words are masculine and which are feminine? do u just have to kinda memorize it?


MAXGNZ:

Yes, tha is masculine and thi is feminine. And yes, according to both my course books, one simply has to memorise the gender of nouns. Both my coursebooks recommend learning nouns with an adjective as an aid to remembering their gender.
_________________


DANIELM:

Well, actually, although its not nearly as straightforward as getting the gender right in say spanish, there are quite a few gender clues that, if you are wary, you can pick up on. I will write on those after thanksgiving. but generally, most words refering to men, about men, or ending in -a are masculine, while most feminine things ending in -ii, -i, -iya, -iyat are feminine


BLACKBUTTERFLY:

thanks alot guys!! 
and i'll look forward to those gender clues daniel! thats one area im having some trouble with...
also there's a random word on my mind roop.. what exactly does that mean?? like in this one song the lyrics are 'roop tera sona'... and i've heard the word a few times but i've never seen it translated..


DANIELM:

heh, yeah, please keep reminding me to do stuff I say that Im going to, I am constantly forgetting.
But im very impressed with your dedication to your questions, it makes me happy to respond!

Here are a few definitions of the word roop:

1. form
2. beauty
3. aspect
4. shape
5. countenance
6. figure
7. semblance
8. image
9. size
10. appearence
11. look
12. make
13. mode
14. mould
15. fashion
16. colour
17. guise
18. mien
19. condition
20. kind



as you can see, its a versatile word. Two filmi examples "roop tera sona," and "roop tera mastana" both refure to a persons figure, her face, her body, the way she looks, and this is how you will find the word used in songs, for the most part, I believe.


BLACKBUTTERFLY:

DanielM wrote:
But im very impressed with your dedication to your questions...

gee thanks! 
yeah i've made up my mind... that no matter what, im going to learn this language..  LOL!!
and im gonna stick to it untill i'm fluent, .. and even after that i'll still find a way to practice.. 
i just thank you for all of your help and patience!! i see soo much improvement in my understanding.. and its because of your help!

wow i had no idea there where sooo many meanings of the word roop! its the first word i've come across that can mean soo many different things! although thats kinda cool..


DANIELM:

Ok, its time for me to type up some of the clues.

1) ok, well lets start with the absolute basic. In general, if ends in -a, odds are its masculine, and if it ends in -i, -ii, or -iya, its probably feminine.

2) First of all, if the word refers to a man or something manly, its probably masculine. And if its feminine in nature, its probably going to be feminine in grammar. This most definatly can override the ending of the word. Which is why the word aadmii (man,a human) is masculine despite the feminine ending.

3) imported words tend to associate with their indic equivelents. So, aadmii, being an importation from arabic, has the same gender as its indic equivelent maanav. The same works with english importations. If you use the word "job" in hindi, it will be masculine just like its equivelent "kaam." (and with its persian equivelent rozgaar too!)

4) words with arabic feminine endings also have a tendancy to remain feminine. these types of words end in -t.

5) arabic and persian words that have a final -i preceding a final consonant or a penultimate vowel -i are probably feminine. So words like kuliyat (complete works) or milkiyet (property) should be feminine.

6) sanskrit words can be tricky. Words can end in -aa and still be feminine from this source. so aashaa (hope) and Bhaashaa (langauge) are feminine despite the long A ending. (But note, in accordance with rule number 3 above, how their persianate equivelents are ALSO feminine in gender. Both ummid (hope) and zabaan (language) are feminine).

I realize that I have covered more comments on imported words than on indic words, and I think this it is in general easier to discern the gender of indic words than of imported words; the final vowels tend to be telling, and hindi words tend to have final vowels, while persian words do not necessarily end in vowels. (although conveniently, the 'generalization' suffixes for both arabic (ii, iiyah) and persian (gii) have either final or penultimate i's which has pushed many of them into feminine genders. [the same -ii ending you sometimes see in spanish, also an arabic import!!!])



I, uh, realize that these may not be the easiest clues to follow when you are beginning to study hindi. Maybe ill try and think of some more simple ways to remember them.



BLACKBUTTERFLY:

thanks alot daniel! 
i know these are clues and there are exceptions to EVERY rule, but i was wondering... how can u tell if its a word like (sp?) 'ghar'? i remember a while back you used the example 'mera apna ghar'.. why is this word masculine? you sure cant tell by the ending  it seems to me that if a woman was referring to her home she would use meri apni ghar but i know thats not right!  (im trying not to confuse myself here  ) but what exactly makes the word masculine?
ohh and this is off topic, but its been on my mind since i saw kalnayak.. what does waqt mean? people usually say either 'abhi se waqt' or (sp?)'Is se waqt'.. what do they mean by that? and omg-- i just thought abt something.. with that ending, would the word be masculine or feminine?


DANIELM:

haha, well, unfortunatly, the word ghar does not fall into any system I know of, so I regret to inform you that you just have to know it. Fortunatly, like the above rule states, the urdu equivelent of ghar, makaan, which is also very common, is also masculine.
Same thing with waqt. It means 'time' and it is masculine, just like its hindi equivelent, samay. So you learn one, get the second free. Thats not so bad right?

[bollyscot]

Currently warching a dramatisation of the Ramayana, and it seems Rama calls Sita /site/.  What kind of usage is this, some kind of vocative?  I am aware of a third person honorific plural that turns /a/ > /e/ as in /beta/ into /bete/, but in a feminine /a/ ending?

[palacerani]

Ok i don't know how to explain this as usual, but in Sanskrit language usage the women's names ending with 'a' were very often given an 'e' sound at the end. this was used for calling them affectionally. So Sita becomes Site, Radha = radhe, Radhika = Radhike etc.

[bollyscot]

Ok i don't know how to explain this as usual, but in Sanskrit language usage the women's names ending with 'a' were very often given an 'e' sound at the end. this was used for calling them affectionally. So Sita becomes Site, Radha = radhe, Radhika = Radhike etc.

Thank you, I had presumed it was some Sankritic thing, but didn't know quite what!

[black_butterfly]

hey y'all! it sure is nice to be back around here!
hey daniel! whats up?! 
im lookin over the gender clues you posted and im wondering if it relates to another question i have.
how do u know when to use na, or nahi or nahin??? is it that nahi is f. and nahin is m.??
and when do you use na??

[Daniel]

There is only nahi.n, nahi is not a word, just a different way or spelling it in english

na can be used with the subjunctive, with commands, and in a variety of phrasal aspects, like "koi na koi" (someone or another)etc.

[Dreamer]

This seems as good a thread as any to ask this probably dumb question.  Several times (three, maybe) in the Chadni Chowk scenes, Sayeeda is referred to as Sayeeda begum.  (Deep breath, red face) I have the impression from this and from a few other movies that "begum" is a title of respect for a woman, but can you please place this title in its proper cultural context for me?  Or have I got it all wrong, and that's Sayeeda's surname?  Thanks!!

Dreamer
a stranger in filmi paradise

[bollyscot]

It's a Muslim term for married women.

[Shri 420]

The title begum means: lady or queen, is apparently of Turkish origin. In india, pakistan and bangladesh begum is often used as a polite way to address a woman (usually a muslim woman). Is also used as a surname for muslim females.

[Ladyhawke]

I'm having Hindi class tonight and what would the day of class be without me doing last minute homework? LOL Can someone be kind enough to glance over this? Otherwise if you don't want to could you at least please tell me the Hindi words for:

'boring'

'teachers'


THANK YOU!!

1. We are students

हम विघाथा (that last 'a' sound has both the "Vowel lines" coming out of it. Not sure what to call them lol) हैं

2. They are my friends

वे मेरे दोसत (the 's' is a half s..can't figure out how to make those yet) हैं

3. Those are fresh flowers

वो ताजे फूल हैं

4. My sisters are doctors

मेरी बहन चिकतसिक हैं

5. My brothers are businessmen

मेरे भाई Oयापारी (that's supposed to be a small circle at the front..I couldn't figure out how to produce it) हैं

6. We are teachers

हम (What is the word for teachers please?)  हैं

7. You are gorgeous

आप सोहना हैं

8. My children are very naughty

I have naughty as 'sharaati' ??

मेरी बचचे (the first 'c' is supposed to be a half one) बहूत शराती हैं

9. They are drunk

वे नशीन हैं

10. Are they my friends?

कया वे मेरी दोसत (again, the 's' is a half 's')


11. Are we collegues?

कया हम (I have the words eksathkam karte for collegues...how to write?) Here I am trying to write it: एकसथकम I have the 's' as a half 's' करते

12. You are not boring

आप (what is the word for 'boring' please?) नहीं हैं

13. We are not enemies

हम दुशमन (Without the 'a' after the 'SH' though...can't figure out how to write it without it) नहीं हैं

14. My friends are not studious

मेरी दोसत पद़ाकू नहीं हैं

15. My siblings are not book-worms

मेरी भाई बहन किताबी - कीइ़ (the dot is supposed to be on the bottom and there is supposed to be a single vowel sign above it too) नहीं हैं

[Shri 420]

Shikshak, Adhyapak = Teachers.
Bor karna, Ubana, Thaka dena = Boring.

[Daniel]

I'm having Hindi class tonight and what would the day of class be without me doing last minute homework? LOL Can someone be kind enough to glance over this? Otherwise if you don't want to could you at least please tell me the Hindi words for:

'boring'

'teachers'


THANK YOU!!

1. We are students

I thought it was विद्यार्थी
3. Those are fresh flowers

वो ताजे फूल हैं

'वो' एक शब्द नहीं....शायद यह 'वह्' होना चाहिये?



6. We are teachers

हम (What is the word for teachers please?)  हैं

मानी अद्यापक

7. You are gorgeous

आप सोहना हैं

मेरे खयाल से 'सोहना' एक verb है .....शायद आप सुन्दर या सुहानी बोलना चाहती हैं(but then I could be completely wrong, and your usage fine...im just guessing!)

8. My children are very naughty

I have naughty as 'sharaati' ??

मेरी बचचे (the first 'c' is supposed to be a half one) बहूत शराती हैं


आप को "शरारती" बोलना चाहिये. 

9. They are drunk

वे नशीन हैं

शायद यह बेहतर है: " वे नशे में हैं."


10. Are they my friends?

कया वे मेरी दोसत (again, the 's' is a half 's')

क्या वे मेरे दोस्त हैं

[Ladyhawke]

Thank you Daniel and Shri 420 

[Autumn]

my miscellaneous query 
baba- I hear this sometimes ppl will say arre baba, or aacha baba

actually I'm gonna add two more 
tuk means what, and another word that sounds like kub?

[Daniel]

baba means old man, but it can refer to little kids too, as well as people working as busboys, that type of small-time name.

tak means "until"

[Shri 420]

baba = a grandfather, an old man, an ascetic, a father, a very common term for boy, girl, child or any young person; honorific applied to rulers in certain states.

tuk =a piece, fragment, part; alittle, rhyme, sense, harmony.

tok = an interruption, questioning, interrogation, hindrance, prevention; the influence of the evil eye.

kab = when, at what time; never.

[Autumn]

thanks everybody!