Learning tamil

[MinaiMinai]

In my understanding, it's exactly the same. Your tongue just sits in your mouth and the tip doesn't touch anything. It's not tricky at all, in my opinion using a "z" to represent that sound is completely random. And like stated above, it's the last letter in the word "Tamil" so if you wanna pronounce it correctly, say it like "tamir".

I think that's the simplest and best explanation for how to say "Tamil/Tamizh" correctly: Tamir!  The r is of course deeper and like veracious posted similar the very *beginning* of the American English word red (said slowly, before the e is pronounced, with the tongue pulled back a bit more).  The whole "how to pronounce the zh" thing was so confusing to me until I figured out it sounds like a retroflex r.  I didn't even realize I was mispronouncing it until a Malayalam friend balked at the way I pronounced "Mozhi" (I said it "Mosey") and corrected me.

Which leads me to a related note- I really don't *like* the way the "zh" sounds in Tamil.  And I may be crazy, but it seems to be that out of the major South Indian languages that I've heard in movies (Tamil, Telugu, and Malayalam), Tamil seems to have "zh" sounds in *much* greater frequency than Telugu or Malayalam.  That's the reason that I've decided I really love the sound of Telugu and Malayalam because they have the fast trill-like rhythmic quality without much pesky "zh" sounds.  But elsewhere on the forum, someone had posted that Malayalam and Tamil are the only two Indian languages with the "zh" sound, but I swear I've heard it a bit in some Telugu movies I've watched and never in Malayalam!  I'm pretty confused.

I think what bothers me about the "zh" sound is it kind of reminds me of when I was a kid (raised in the U.S.)  and my friends and I would say "durrr" in response to someone acting dumb or "retarded" as we called it.  We would really elongate the r and it sounded very retroflex-ish.  When I make that sound in Tamil I feel stupid saying it! I think that sound has somehow been culturally imprinted on my brain as being subconsciously associated with "stupid" things and irritates me, if that is possible!

I first heard the "zh" sound in Kandukondain Kandukondain in the song "Konjum Mainakkale" (hear it at about 9/10 seconds in this youtube clip: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o1bIB85pBPE) and it drove me NUTS, especially how it lingers at the end of the line.  Since then I've heard it repeatedly in tons of Tamil songs.

Anywho, just thought to share my aversion towards this particular little sound and am curious if anyone else has experienced something similar!  And no bad feelings towards the Tamil language or anything- it is just a sound, after all.  

[theboldandthebolly]

I have decided I really want to learn Tamil and have been looking for materials that will help. For hindi I cought the colloquial hindi that cam with a book and audio cds. It helped a  lot with learning to pronounce the sounds and to write and read. Has anyone ever tried the Colloquial Tamil? (http://www.amazon.com/Colloquial-Tamil-Complete-Course-Beginners/dp/0415187885/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1250293071&sr=8-1 ( did not actually buy this from amazon but this is what it is just with the audio cds) 

I am hoping it will give a basic of at least how sounds are pronounced and a few sentences I can string together.

[Karuvar]

I first heard the "zh" sound in Kandukondain Kandukondain in the song "Konjum Mainakkale" (hear it at about 9/10 seconds in this youtube clip: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o1bIB85pBPE) and it drove me NUTS, especially how it lingers at the end of the line.  Since then I've heard it repeatedly in tons of Tamil songs.

Minai, this is not the retroflex 'zh' sound!  It's actually the retroflex 'l', a sound that does occur very frequently especially in literary Tamil.  It can be easy to confuse the two if you're not familiar with the language.

I have decided I really want to learn Tamil and have been looking for materials that will help. For hindi I cought the colloquial hindi that cam with a book and audio cds. It helped a  lot with learning to pronounce the sounds and to write and read. Has anyone ever tried the Colloquial Tamil? (http://www.amazon.com/Colloquial-Tamil-Complete-Course-Beginners/dp/0415187885/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1250293071&sr=8-1 ( did not actually buy this from amazon but this is what it is just with the audio cds) 

I am hoping it will give a basic of at least how sounds are pronounced and a few sentences I can string together.

I saw that kit in the library the other day.  I might go and check it out.  Although my Tamil skills are at the level of a four year old, I did hear my grandparents and parents speaking Tamil as I grew up, so I have some idea what the language is supposed to sound like.

[AfgJasmine16]

I have decided I really want to learn Tamil and have been looking for materials that will help. For hindi I cought the colloquial hindi that cam with a book and audio cds. It helped a  lot with learning to pronounce the sounds and to write and read. Has anyone ever tried the Colloquial Tamil? (http://www.amazon.com/Colloquial-Tamil-Complete-Course-Beginners/dp/0415187885/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1250293071&sr=8-1 ( did not actually buy this from amazon but this is what it is just with the audio cds) 

I am hoping it will give a basic of at least how sounds are pronounced and a few sentences I can string together.

I have tried coll. Tamil, I like it but it does not teach the alphabet and the recordings are pretty bad, but its the only source I can find to learn Tamil so I have sick to it

[gabahd]

I have tried coll. Tamil, I like it but it does not teach the alphabet and the recordings are pretty bad, but its the only source I can find to learn Tamil so I have sick to it

I'm gonna start learning Tamil today (I am writing it here so I'm accountable to you guys..) and I'm using the Coll. Tamil book and CDs (purchased 3 years ago....).

I don't mind not learning the script at this point, they don't use it much and I feel it would clutter up my brain anyways. Will let you know what I think of the method once I've reached a certain level.

[tabula rasa]

I'm gonna start learning Tamil today (I am writing it here so I'm accountable to you guys..) and I'm using the Coll. Tamil book and CDs (purchased 3 years ago....).

I don't mind not learning the script at this point, they don't use it much and I feel it would clutter up my brain anyways. Will let you know what I think of the method once I've reached a certain level.

Hey Gab, not seen you in ages.

Good luck learning Tamil - I'm curious to see how adults who're used to speaking English will adapt to reading and writing in Tamil.

And MinaiMinai - with regards to your dramatic aversion to the retroflex approximant:

As a form of prejudice, linguicism is often more subconscious than other forms, possibly because not much attention has been raised about it; it is not a cultural taboo as racism and sexism are today.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Linguicism

[James]

Gab, I think it's cool you're going to learn Tamil.  My high school had a sizeable Tamil-Canadian presence and I heard it in the hallways almost as much as English.  I've always liked the sound of the language.

At that point in time I used to know some simple phrases, though I've forgotten most of them unfortunately.  I did learn to write my name in Tamil, though, and that has stayed with me all these years.  I don't think Tamil would be any harder to learn to read or write than Hindi as they're both based on a similar sort of system (consonants, non-aspirated/aspirated, ordered from the back of the throat to the front, so similar to ka kha ga gha, cha chha ja jha, etc., of Hindi).  It really is systematic, though I understand Tamil has more exceptions (some consonants are pronounced differently in the middle of a word, I understand).  Anyway, whatever you do, best of luck.   

[gabahd]

Thanks for the support! But the speed of Tamil is what really worries me.
For pronunciation, being a native French speaker might help a bit, they give French words as equivalent for the prononciation of a few phonems that don't exist in English!

[AfgJasmine16]

Thanks for the support! But the speed of Tamil is what really worries me.
For pronunciation, being a native French speaker might help a bit, they give French words as equivalent for the prononciation of a few phonems that don't exist in English!

How do you like col. tamil book? You know Im half way through it and I really like it now. I cant speak very well but Im understanding a lot of Tamil movies and reconizing sentances and words.

[gabahd]

Oh geeze, now I feel bad... I quit after 20 minutes!
I need someone to force me!

[AfgJasmine16]

Oh geeze, now I feel bad... I quit after 20 minutes!
I need someone to force me!

What made you quit? 

[gabahd]

What made you quit? 

Oh just lack of time and finding motivation from within! I'm returning to Chennai this fall/winter, so I'd like to at least learn the basics by then. A friend will help me in July (I was feeling guilty so I emailed him yesterday after I wrote my post)

[gabahd]

Well I've started Tamil lessons, one on one. I think only that way I'll gain the confidence and motivation to *then* use my book. Won't seem like an insurmountable task by then!

Already after 2 sessions I feel I'm learning. I'm pretty excited!

[cicca]

If there is anyone who would like to teach Tamil, get in contact with me.
My In Laws and I can't communicate!    Willing to pay a small per class fee.
Looking to at least be able to ask my inlaws how they are feeling and see if they need anything. I feel like the worlds worst cad when they are around due to my lack of being able to speak with or understand them. 
Love my hubby but he is the worst teacher alive...
I don't check in here much.
My email is ciccas_world@yahoo.com

[Dariya]

I first heard the "zh" sound in Kandukondain Kandukondain in the song "Konjum Mainakkale" (hear it at about 9/10 seconds in this youtube clip: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o1bIB85pBPE) and it drove me NUTS, especially how it lingers at the end of the line.  Since then I've heard it repeatedly in tons of Tamil songs.

Anywho, just thought to share my aversion towards this particular little sound and am curious if anyone else has experienced something similar!  And no bad feelings towards the Tamil language or anything- it is just a sound, after all.  

MinaiMinai, that is so funny!  Personally I love it and 80% of the reason I want to learn Tamil is so I can go around making this "zh" sound.  But I found it kind of hard to pronounce.

[Prem Rogue]

Are there any good Tamil to English translators online, where I could copy and paste Tamil text and translate it to English? I can read Tamil VERY slowly, and even then I don't understand all of it. There's an article I'd like to read, but it will take me forever.

[Dil Bert]

Are there any good Tamil to English translators online, where I could copy and paste Tamil text and translate it to English?

I don't know about good, but there's google translate.