It's Hinglish, innit?

[bollyscot]

This article is quite interesting:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/magazine/6122072.stm

[palacerani]

Thanx Bollyscot. Is this compilation available online?

[bollyscot]

Think it's a book you have to buy palacerani....

Did a quick search: here it is on Amazon and cheaper at Browns.

Btw, that's some sig you have now!!!

[palacerani]

Thanx for the info. It's 128 pages long. I didn't know there were so many Hinglish words.  Unless she has one word per page.

[Anamika]

Here's another article about the dictionary, from Pune Times:

Hinglish gets a global audience
Pallavi Pasricha & Chandna Arora
_{7 Dec, 2006 2343hrs ISTTIMES NEWS NETWORK}

This is the language that sells a thousand products. GenX understands nothing but this. Ladies and gentlemen, we are talking about Hinglish, which is slowly turning into a global language in its own right. In the UK, author Baljinder Mahal has given this trend another push by bringing out a Hinglish dictionary called The Queen’s Hinglish: How to Speak Pukka. With words like ‘doolally’, which has been a part of English since the Raj, to late entrants like ‘bevakoof’ and ‘badmash’, the dictionary has the essence of Hinglish. Purists might scream ‘Murder!’ (with the ‘r’ silent), but woh sab timepass hai!

And among the most visible speakers of this bhasha of ours are the VJs and RJs. "We aren’t ever given a brief about speaking in a particular language, but it’s understood. Basic urban programming is moving into this language,” says VJ Cyrus Sahukar. “When I became a VJ, my whole agenda was to introduce desi cool to young TV audiences,” says Mini Mathur, adding, “That’s a Hinglish term too – desi cool!”

Along with being cool, Hinglish helps communicators to reach out to all kinds of audiences. Says RJ Saima, “It makes perfect business sense – it’s the smartest way to reach out to audiences.”

But VJs and RJs insist they are only doling out what audience wants. Says Sahukar. “People have no hang-ups about dancing to a full-out filmi gaana, but they also watch English programmes. It’s like Hindi’s married English, and the child is doing way better than the parents.” Ad guru Prahlad Kakkar calls Hinglish a dynamic street language that is evolving each day. “Pure Hindi and English are dead and it is only a mixture of both that works out in the end.”

Adds ad-man Alyque Padamsee, “Hinglish has got a great boost by Bollywood and ads. If you look at Lage Raho Munna Bhai, even Sanjay Dutt’s bhai lingo is interspersed with English words. In fact, Hinglish is a language for young and young at heart.”

Authors also welcome it in colloquial use. Writer Manju Kapoor says, “The basic purpose of any language is to express yourself in a good way. And if that is done by mixing two languages, there is nothing wrong with it. Even in my writing, I use Hindi words very often because I feel that the meaning might be conveyed in a better way. Words like aloo poori, aangan are better conveyed in Hindi so I use them, but I am careful not to use them indiscriminately.”

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/NEWS/City_Supplements/Pune_Times/Hinglish_gets_a_global_audience/articleshow/738608.cms

[Nayika]

I have a new timepass Let's compile our own list of Hinglish words
Now that i've come up with that 'witty' sentence my mind has gone black and the only one i can think of that i personally use is bolo bolo tell tell (from Gop Kishan) if anybody's being particularly secretive and coy

[bollyscot]

Well I don't know if it's strictly Hinglish (as in a mixture of the two), or more correctly classified as an Indian English neologism, but I always get a chuckle at the word "prepone"!

[chinchinchu]

There are 2 great stories on Hinglish on National Public Radio... look up Hinglish on www.npr.org and you will find them. One is about Hinglish in India, the other is an interview with an author and her friends in the UK.

[Dancelover]

Once upon a time in North India, there were
Sanskrit, the language of education,
Persian, the language of the court,
and Hindustani, the language of the people.

Then Indians realized that everybody should be educated.
So some added Sanskrit words to Hindustani, creating *Hindi*.
Others added Persian (and some Arabic and Turkish) words, creating "Urdu*.

Nowadays (ajkal) many people are adding English words, and creating *Hinglish*.
Other people are distressed by all of the Hinglish now being used.
I am wondering:
Is this creation of Hinglish really an un-Indian (par-desi) thing to do?
Or is it just like the first makings, from Hindustani, of Hindi and Urdu,
so that now North Indians will have three (3) Languages Of Education availible
to them: Hindi, Urdu, and Hinglish?

Howard "Dancelover" Wilkins

[moviemystk]

I guess "Hinglish" is due to the British influence in India and here to stay.  I am not sure if its could be considered Un-Indian since some Indians do speak Hinglish.   When I go to India (New Delhi) I hear people talking in Hinglish.  It comes naturally to them and I can accept this (but not like it).  However whenever I hear it in a Hindi movie its too jarring for me and despise it since it sounds too "stylized".  

Also the basic issue (IMHO) is whether people are proud to be Indian and their "Indianess" and then everything flows from that - ie. using/preserving  their own (native) language, clothes, customes, values etc.  
I was watching a part of a Chinese talent show on YOutube and everybody was talking in Chinese - I didn't hear any "Chinglish" (LOL) being spoken!!

[LinKarish]

I don't have any problem with Hinglish, or whatever _glish used in India.  It's a part of life, and in my opinion either it's used in films well, or it's not used well.  That can be said with all types of dialogue in films.  It could be realistic, or unrealistic.  The idea is to make it realistic according to the environment or character, not try to force English or try to force Hindi or whatever language of the film industry. It goes both ways.

However whenever I hear it in a Hindi movie its too jarring for me and despise it since it sounds too "stylized".

But much of the dialogue in Indian films is stylized. Not just the English dialogues.

I was watching a part of a Chinese talent show on YOutube and everybody was talking in Chinese - I didn't hear any "Chinglish" (LOL) being spoken!!

Because the level of English in Indian middle class and everyday use is greater than it would be in China, which also varies depending on which Chinese entertainment industry the show is from-- Mainland, HK, Taiwan.

One of the reasons the Indian national entertainment shows and talent shows use so much English is because they are for a national audience, recruiting from all over India.  That being said, many regional talent shows have a good amount of English as well, depending on the region and market.

I guess "Hinglish" is due to the British influence in India and here to stay.  

The British influence that was also kept on by India because it realized that the English language was needed for the Union of India.   Which is actually the case with a lot of the former British colonies who use a great amount of English.  Some had thought English would slowly dimiish, but realistically they were fools to think that it would happen. If it's not English, it would be Hindi-nationalism, which many would never accept.   (It's not Hindi that's the linuga-franca of the South.)  It's one of the uniting factors of the current union of India.  English is also a part of various Government institutions and practices as much as it is part of the middle class. So the higher education system kept enforcing English. It became a circle.    

Also, English education and English speaking population in India is one of the reasons for India's growth in service sectors, which is a reason for India's growing economy, which one can only hope will lead to less poverty and better governmental and social services for the Indian population at large.

[James]

Then Indians realized that everybody should be educated.
So some added Sanskrit words to Hindustani, creating *Hindi*.
Others added Persian (and some Arabic and Turkish) words, creating "Urdu*.

I don't think that was really about education. Persian was the language of the court as you mentioned, and many people who worked and lived in the court naturally drew on Persian and Arabic for loan words within the existing Hindi structure, which is why 'urdu' itself means 'military encampment' in Turkish, because that's where Urdu developed (in the military encampment in Delhi). Members of the court naturally began to assimilate to the existing Indian milieu and culture preserving certain aspects of their heritage by using a vocabulary in Hindi that drew heavily from Persian and Arabic sources.

There was no 'standard' Hindi at the time, no khari boli, but there were several dialects that were precursors to modern standard Hindi, and Urdu was a mix of that with the new vocabulary.

Later on, after the partition of India and Pakistan, there was a purposeful movement to 'purify' both Hindi and Urdu, reactionary to the partition itself and heavily based in communal Hindu-Muslim identity politics. In India, that meant creating a great deal of Sanskritic neologisms and trying to rid the language of common Urdu words. In Pakistan, they did the same thing vis-a-vis Urdu, and drew heavily on Arabic and Persian for neologisms and vocabulary in general. This was a political movement attempting to create false differences between two dialects of the same language to reflect the creation of Pakistan as an Islamic state and India as a predominantly Hindu country. In my opinion, the motive wasn't to educate people, but schools were used to disseminate these 'pure' versions of the language in both countries.

Interestingly, as an aside, Hindi speakers in India are much more likely to know Urdu words than Urdu speakers in Pakistan would know Hindi words. That might have a lot to do with there being more native speakers of other languages in Pakistan, particularly Punjabi, Sindhi, Pashto, etc., and so they learnt this new standard Urdu when declared the national language of Pakistan whereas there were more native speakers of Hindi and Urdu in India with all the historical language memory that entails. Also, I suppose many of those 'shuddh Hindi' words are of recent origin.

Nowadays (ajkal) many people are adding English words, and creating *Hinglish*.
Other people are distressed by all of the Hinglish now being used.
I am wondering:
Is this creation of Hinglish really an un-Indian (par-desi) thing to do?
Or is it just like the first makings, from Hindustani, of Hindi and Urdu,
so that now North Indians will have three (3) Languages Of Education availible
to them: Hindi, Urdu, and Hinglish?

Howard "Dancelover" Wilkins

It seems to me that with the prevalence of English, particularly amongst the Indian administration and well to do classes, there is a certain pidgin language we call 'Hinglish' that has developed to facilitate communication between those who are more well-to-do and favour English, and those whose mother tongue is Hindi and who have little English-language fluency. The same is likely true for all Indian languages. There is the possibility that it could become a full-fledged creole and perhaps replace Hindi, but that seems unlikely to me considering the number of speakers of Hindi, its official language status, etc.

Considering India has consistently throughout its history assimilated other groups into its existing culture, adopting the best new practices whilst maintaining the core of their values and traditions, it seems more likely to me that this is a natural Indian practice that has gone on for millennia and is perfectly Indian in nature. Reasonable minds may differ on that one, though.

[Prem Rogue]

What exactly constitutes "Hinglish?" Is it the use of Hindi (or other languages) interspersed with English words here and there? Is it a specific kind of English peculiar to India, with certain grammatical features? Does the use of English words when there aren't commonly used Hindi (or Tamil, Telugu, etc.) count?

[Dancelover]

Yes, this is what I was trying to say.
Thank you, James.

Dancelover

[snip]

Considering India has consistently throughout its history assimilated other groups into its existing culture, adopting the best new practices whilst maintaining the core of their values and traditions, it seems more likely to me that this is a natural Indian practice that has gone on for millennia and is perfectly Indian in nature. Reasonable minds may differ on that one, though.

[James]

What exactly constitutes "Hinglish?" Is it the use of Hindi (or other languages) interspersed with English words here and there? Is it a specific kind of English peculiar to India, with certain grammatical features? Does the use of English words when there aren't commonly used Hindi (or Tamil, Telugu, etc.) count?

I don't think Hinglish is the same as Indian English, no. Hinglish tends to be Hindi mixed with a high dosage of English vocabulary, sometimes extending to idiom and syntax.

It's mentioned in the grammar, Teach Yourself Hindi, by Snell, p. 234:

"In cities like Delhi and Bombay, words such as 'kalam', 'ghadi', 'pyaala', 'bayaa.n', 'daahina', are losing ground to their English equivalents - 'pen', 'watch', 'cup', 'left', 'right'. [...] The influence of English even extends into Hindi idiom (e.g. 'dusare shabdo.n me.n'', 'in other words')."

Using English words, particularly for technology, is sort of expected as that is largely the language such inventions are made in (even languages like French, spoken in countries that are technologically and scientifically very advanced, have this problem). Many defenders of a language would decry that and try to come up with appropriate equivalent words, though I don't think that is where the problem for Hindi lies (Québec is good at coming up with terms in French and has a dictionary online for this purpose). It's more of a concern when English words supplant perfectly good Hindi words of long standing, and troublesome when you see idiom and syntax in Hindi that reflects English constructions, and both of those issues are trends right now in the Hindi speaking world.

[namastemia]

Once upon a time in North India, there were
Sanskrit, the language of education,
Persian, the language of the court,
and Hindustani, the language of the people.

Then Indians realized that everybody should be educated.
So some added Sanskrit words to Hindustani, creating *Hindi*.
Others added Persian (and some Arabic and Turkish) words, creating "Urdu*.



Howard "Dancelover" Wilkins

very informative thank you.

[Dancelover]

::Dancelover blushes::
Aw, I was just trying to create a fable, that might approach accuracy.
It's not as if I really "know" any of that.
I beg pardon if anyone thought that I was claiming expertise.

Dancelover

very informative thank you.