Sholay (spoilers)

[Vierran]

Just saw it yesterday and loved it. Amitabh and Dharmendra were great as the heroes and Hema Malini offered great support. Jaya was mostly wasted, offering longing glances at Amitabh as a grieving widow type of role, though the ending of the film was made more poignant by this.

The villain was great, though he should have read some chapters from the Evil Overlord list. The end fight with the villain and the armless police was just a bit too over-the-top. This film had it all, roguish heroes, suffering heroic characters, suffering silent widow, chattery heroic female, really evil villain, simple villagers, good songs, etc.

Very enjoyable film overall, and I understand why it's considered a classic. I need to see more films like this! Any suggestions?

[OldieFanGurl]

I'll write my long review on it later lol.

But for sugesstions at the moment...

Mera Gaon Mera Desh is VERY similar to it, with better art and EXCEPTIONAL music...the villian (Vinod Khanna) is much better looking and a better actor. Dharmi's in this one too, with Asha Parekh, who's a great actress. Laxmi Chhya gave a good performance, and she got many of the great songs. I guess movie wise I don't like it as much as Sholay, but the music is just to die for! lol

[Roj Blake]

Vierran, in yoru version, did the police come in and stop the armless Thakur from exacting vigilante justice?  Or did the Thakur kill Gabbar Singh?  Apparently the movie was originally to have had the Thakur kill Gabbar Singh, but then the ending was censored, so instead the police swooped in.

I don't remember which version I saw!

Overall I don't think much positively or negatively about Sholay, despite its reputation of a classic.  It just meanders around and then ends.  About the most I can say is that Amitabh was good-looking back then.

[Vierran]

Vierran, in yoru version, did the police come in and stop the armless Thakur from exacting vigilante justice?  Or did the Thakur kill Gabbar Singh?  Apparently the movie was originally to have had the Thakur kill Gabbar Singh, but then the ending was censored, so instead the police swooped in.

In the dvd I saw, Gabbar Sing was in the end killed by Thakur, the armless policeman.There were no police to stop the action.

About the most I can say is that Amitabh was good-looking back then.

Oh, yes. Young Amitabh was very attractive in this film . Dharmendra had a bit too much of a beer-belly, though they really worked on hiding it, but he must have been the charming funny boyish type when younger.

Still, this being my first Dharmendra movie, I was just thinking on when his sons were born (ok, checked IMDB, earlier) and when his relationship with Hema Malini began (Esha was born in 1982)... Another  thought is if Amitabh and Jaya were already a couple in this movie. I can't remember when they got together.

[Chirpy_Sabz]

Amitabh and Jaya got married in 1973 .... 

[OldieFanGurl]

Amitabh and Jaya: June 3rd, 1973
Dharmendra and Hema: I think in 1980 or 1981, I'll get the exact date later. 

In regard to Dharmji's children, well the sons were from his first wife. I heard that Bobby was in Dharam Veer (1977)...playing the young Dharmendra.

Oh here's some facts...
Sunny Deol's b-day: oct. 19th, 1956
Bobby Deol's b-day: jan. 27, 1967
Esha Deol's b-day: nov. 2nd, 1982
Abhay Deol (who I discovered two days ago): uh, sry can't find his birthday

I know there's another daughter, Ahana Deol, she's not part of the industry.

[OldieFanGurl]

About the most I can say is that Amitabh was good-looking back then.

Oh, yes. Young Amitabh was very attractive in this film .

Watch Deewar, Mili, and Amar Akbar Anthony and you'll faint (like me)

Dharmendra had a bit too much of a beer-belly, though they really worked on hiding it, but he must have been the charming funny boyish type when younger.

Hey, maybe he's going thorough mid-life crisis! lol, jk. Watch Mera Gaon Mera Desh, like I mentioned earlier, and definitley watch Guddi. Pratigya isn't the best movie, but he's really funny in that one.

[gabahd]

This is pretty off topic, but can you tell me about the picturization of Apni Prem Kahaniyan (song from Mera Gaon Mera Desh) ?
It's such a good song, I'm curious to know who is in it, and what happens...! I want to watch this movie some day, for the music and for Vinod especially!

[OldieFanGurl]

This is pretty off topic, but can you tell me about the picturization of Apni Prem Kahaniyan (song from Mera Gaon Mera Desh) ?
It's such a good song, I'm curious to know who is in it, and what happens...! I want to watch this movie some day, for the music and for Vinod especially!

Laxmi Chhaya sings the song. She's dancing in a Mela(carnival), entertaining everyone. Dharmendra and his good people are disguised fully with turbans and everything, and so is Jabbar Singh(Vinod Khanna). My memory gets a bit blurry, but I think this was supossed to be the best oppurtunity for the police to catch Jabbar. Some of the lyrics in the song, and things Laxmi whispers to Dharmji, are helping him to find Jabbar and eventually shoot at him. If you want to know the rest, below is a SPOILER...

Instead Jabbar realizes that the police know where he is and he starts shooting at Dharmendra and the police. They don't catch him this time. But maybe another time...

Later he takes Dharmendra and Asha Parekh hostage...and then plays another beautiful song given to Laxmi C. "Mar Diya Jaye"....

Yay lol.

[Chirpy_Sabz]

haha...love the song..."maar diya jaye, ya chod diya jaye....bol tere saath kya sulookh kiya jaye"....  Dharmendra looked great in this song ... haha...

[Fireball]

I just watched Sholay for the first time today. I LOVED it up until the point where Amitabh dies, at which point my grip on reality snapped, and I yelled loudly for the whole dorm to hear:

GABBAR SINGH CAN GO TO HELL!!!!!
I was seriously thinking how badly I wanted to impale that guy (and I was thinking impalement was too good for him) when the Thakur went and did it for me.



...now please excuse me while I curl up in a corner and mourn for my beloved amitabh....

[stimpy]

I loved Sholay,my first *curry-western* it sits happily in my top ten westerns even if srtictly speaking it isn't a correct western.
I love the cast. I was enjoying myself thoroughly too until Jai got killed, the hitlerlike prison warden did bore me a little, but all in all I had a great time. I was grinning like anything out of the looney bin when 'Yeh Dosti' started, Veer and Jai driving the motorcycle with side-car. Don't remember any bw songs with blokes singing to each other. Basanti dancing on glass ect. 
Unfortunately I didn't have the version where Thakkur kills Gabbar Singh with his nail-soled shoes how do you know if it is in the film before you buy? I want revenge. Then I could watch it again.

While watching I was sure that something was to spoil Jai and Radha getting each other in the end, as she was a widow and they never get to marry again. I seem to remember reading that in real life Amitabh and Jaya had recently gotten married and Jaya was expecting Abhishek? Dharmendra was boozing and secretly romancing Hema Malini Everybody was having a ball.
I've been thinking of getting Anupama Chopra's Making of Sholay, has anybody read that?   

[Fireball]

Unfortunately I didn't have the version where Thakkur kills Gabbar Singh with his nail-soled shoes how do you know if it is in the film before you buy? I want revenge. Then I could watch it again.
 

Hang on, there's another version that end differently? I've only ever seen the ending where the Thakur gets to kill him.

What does "Sholay" mean anyway?

[OldieFanGurl]

Yeah there's two endings, in one of them the police are like "don't take the law into your own hands Thakur" blah blah blah! lol. And one of them is when Thakur kills Gabbar (thank god! lol).

The EROS dvd has the ending where Gabbar is killed by Thakur.

Sholay means "Flames" I think.

[Chirpy_Sabz]

I just watched Sholay for the first time today. I LOVED it up until the point where Amitabh dies, at which point my grip on reality snapped, and I yelled loudly for the whole dorm to hear:

GABBAR SINGH CAN GO TO HELL!!!!!
I was seriously thinking how badly I wanted to impale that guy (and I was thinking impalement was too good for him) when the Thakur went and did it for me.



...now please excuse me while I curl up in a corner and mourn for my beloved amitabh....

hahahaha.... wow... u really hate Gabbar .... I hate him too...especially for killing AB  that scene always makes me cry....

Thakur...gave him quite a beating with his shoes LOL... many people dont like that scene for some reason...I love it haha...well deserves...Gabbar was a bad bad man   

[DCgal]

Hang on, there's another version that end differently? I've only ever seen the ending where the Thakur gets to kill him.

Yes - there's the infamous first-released version - The censors refused to release it as filmed and demanded a change to the ending.   There's another version in which Gabbar Singh is caught & turned over to the police.  The current (and correct original) version has Tahkkur killing Gabbar.

[Fireball]

Hang on, there's another version that end differently? I've only ever seen the ending where the Thakur gets to kill him.

Yes - there's the infamous first-released version - The censors refused to release it as filmed and demanded a change to the ending.   There's another version in which Gabbar Singh is caught & turned over to the police.  The current (and correct original) version has Tahkkur killing Gabbar.

I'm so glad I have the original version then. If I had the one where slimy Gabbar doesn't get killed I think I would have thrown my laptop across the room, which would have been a less-than-good thing.

[Roj Blake]

I think it was the right thing for the censor board to ask that the original ending be changed.  I'm strongly opposed to vengeance and to vigilante justice.

[DCgal]

I think it was the right thing for the censor board to ask that the original ending be changed.  I'm strongly opposed to vengeance and to vigilante justice.

Don't like censors much at all, but if you had to have one I don't think a censor should interfere with the artistic vision, just edit for bad language and sex.  And while I wouldn't want vengeance in real life, I think the ending was wholely appropriate and fitting for this film.

[Junglee]

I think it was the right thing for the censor board to ask that the original ending be changed.  I'm strongly opposed to vengeance and to vigilante justice.

Don't want to give any spoilers away, but does this mean you strongly disagreed with the whole Khakee story. I'd be especially interested to hear what you thought about the ending. Did you think the censor board didn't do its job there?

[Roj Blake]

I think it was the right thing for the censor board to ask that the original ending be changed.  I'm strongly opposed to vengeance and to vigilante justice.

Don't want to give any spoilers away, but does this mean you strongly disagreed with the whole Khakee story. I'd be especially interested to hear what you thought about the ending. Did you think the censor board didn't do its job there?

 
[SPOILERS for Khakee follow in the next two paragraphs.]
Junglee, I loved Khakee a lot, but would have liked it less if it wasn't for the "morality clause"/"if you think what happened was right, thnk again"-type subtitle at the end.  Was it in the copy you saw, or was it only in the English subtitles?  (I'm assuming you didn't need subtitles.)

Even without the morality clause though, I do think the ending was meant to be disturbing rather than something to be praised ... Throughout the movie, we see Tusshar's gradual descent and disillusionment.  It's tragic.  Leaving it to the viewer as to interpretation, does not send a bad message like Sholay would have done if it hadn't been changed.

[Roj Blake]

I think it was the right thing for the censor board to ask that the original ending be changed.  I'm strongly opposed to vengeance and to vigilante justice.

Don't like censors much at all, but if you had to have one I don't think a censor should interfere with the artistic vision, just edit for bad language and sex.  And while I wouldn't want vengeance in real life, I think the ending was wholely appropriate and fitting for this film.

 
My position on censorship, as posted in the censorship thread elsewhere, is that I have no problem with it when it is on a commercial film and the film is not trying to give a message of some sort. 

Art or "in-between" films, and documentaries, are different, however, and should be free of censorship -- for those movies, the filmmaker is not primarily trying to make money, and is exercising artistic vision or free speech. 

Sholay was primarily trying to get money from the audience, though, so like any other form of commerce, should be subject to regulatory standards.  Movies have the power to influence minds ... If filmmakers are going to craft a film where vigilante vengenace seems to be the only reasonable ending, simply in order to get money from the audience, then they are being socially irresponsible, just like a polluter is environmentally irresponsible. 

The government, which in a democracy represents the people, should be able to appoint a board that enforces consistent standards to reduce this "negative externality" from the filmmaker's product.  (The standards do need to be consistent though, and should only be applied to films where the primary aim is profit rather than speech.  Also, there would be gray areas, which would need to be worked through.)

[wannabe]

I haven't seen Sholay, but wasn't it released before 1973?  The reason this is important is that the censor board rules were revised and relaxed around 1973.  One of the rules before the revisions was that the police couldn't be shown in a bad light.  I don't know if it survived the revisions -- doesn't seem likely, since there have been literally tons of movies since then (in all languages) dealing specifically with corrupt policemen and politicians.

wannabe

[OldieFanGurl]

I haven't seen Sholay, but wasn't it released before 1973?  The reason this is important is that the censor board rules were revised and relaxed around 1973.  One of the rules before the revisions was that the police couldn't be shown in a bad light.  I don't know if it survived the revisions -- doesn't seem likely, since there have been literally tons of movies since then (in all languages) dealing specifically with corrupt policemen and politicians.

wannabe

Sholay was released in 1975.

[GreenBear]

Don't believe in censorship in the least. Slap a correct rating on it if you find things in it disturbing or offensive, but other than that, let it alone. I have no problems even with pornography as long as it's properly rated/labelled. I do NOT want the government to censor what I see. I am a grown-up who can decide for myself, thank you very much. (And the ratings help parents decide for their children)

This said, vigilante justice doesn't bother me too much.

I adore Sholay and was so moved by AB/Jaya romance. I was shocked when he died and wished Dharmendra whould have died instead. So glad nasty Gabbar got what was coming to him!